Could N64 be added?

Post Reply
User avatar
Grizzly
Posts: 14
Joined: 2019-10-20 05:41:02
Location: In Da Woods

Could N64 be added?

Post by Grizzly » 2019-10-23 03:55:28

Hello byuu, I am Grizzly. I hope your not mad at me for posting a new topic, but I did not know where my post could go.

I was wondering if the N64 playback could be added at some point to higan. What made me wounder this was your youtube video of the tools you used for reverse engineering the snes. With the N64 could the same thing be done like what you did to the snes. It does have a port like the snes, Would this be something that could work or not really.

One other question I have is why does the lib retro version for the N64 not work the best on a Raspberry pi SBC?

Thank you and I hope you have a great day. :-D
Image

Screwtape
Posts: 10
Joined: 2019-09-18 21:49:25

Re: Could N64 be added?

Post by Screwtape » 2019-10-23 07:49:06

byuu has said he's not interested in N64 emulation; 3D hardware (as used by the N64 and later consoles) works quite differently and is a lot more math-heavy than 2D hardware (as used by the SNES and previous consoles), and so it would require another twenty or so years' effort for byuu to bring an N64 emulator up to the level of higan's SNES emulation.

The N64 is difficult to emulate because it's built quite differently from modern PCs. The NES is fairly simple, the SNES is a straightforward evolution of NES technology, but after that different companies tried a variety of different system architectures to make 3D-capable hardware cheap enough to put into a console — the Playstation, Saturn, and N64 are all very different from each other, and very different from PC graphics of the era, like the 3Dfx Voodoo.

It turned out that the PC-with-Voodoo architecture was the most economic, and most consoles produces after that point (GameCube, XBox, etc.) follow that model and can be fairly efficiently emulated on modern PCs. But consoles in that transitional period, consoles that tried to do their own, different thing, will always be more challenging to emulate reliably.

User avatar
Grizzly
Posts: 14
Joined: 2019-10-20 05:41:02
Location: In Da Woods

Re: Could N64 be added?

Post by Grizzly » 2019-10-24 01:01:02

Oh, Ok thank you very much for your post. I now understand why N64 struggles on the Raspberry Pi. Also I did not know that byuu had said no on the subject. I honestly did not.

Math heavy, what do you mean exactly. Are you talking about like Calculus and Trig, mixed together. If so I do understand that and understand why byuu said no.

With the topic of modern PC's, Do you think soon N64 will get better, or is that a long way off. I know you said it could be 20 years or so, and I understand that, but if not following byuu method could it be sooner then later?
Image

Screwtape
Posts: 10
Joined: 2019-09-18 21:49:25

Re: Could N64 be added?

Post by Screwtape » 2019-10-24 02:41:15

Drawing 2D games generally requires moving things left or right, up or down, which mathematically just means addition and sometimes a little multiplication.

Drawing 3D games requires scaling and rotation and perspective, which mathematically means trigonometry and matrices, and that's a lot more complex.

Note that there are SNES games that do 3D-like effects, such as Super Mario Kart and StarFox, but in those cases the game knows what calculations to do and the emulator can be simple. For 3D consoles, the game generally just throws models and textures at the hardware and says "you figure it out", so the emulator needs to be more complex.

There are some half-decent N64 emulators already, things like Mupen64Plus which run pretty well on modern PCs even though they don't yet handle every possible N64 game. There's also CEN64, which aims for higan-tier accuracy, and should achieve higan-tier compatibility, but which requires a high-end CPU to have a chance of running at full speed.

The "twenty years" thing was an estimate of how long it might take byuu to get up to speed on N64 emulation from his current skill-set. Other people (like MarathonMan, the author of CEN64) have been learning about this stuff for many years already, so they've got quite a head start.

User avatar
Grizzly
Posts: 14
Joined: 2019-10-20 05:41:02
Location: In Da Woods

Re: Could N64 be added?

Post by Grizzly » 2019-10-25 04:24:26

Oh, I now understand why N64 emulators are not very far a head. That would also explain why the raspberry pi can not handle it well like the PS1,NES,SNES etc.

I knew about emulators like mupen64, I have played around with it on my PC and I like it, I was always confused why on the raspberry pi it was not the best. I would like to say thank you on CEN64, I did not know about that one at all. I will give it a look at :-).

I understood what you meant about the 20 years part, for byuu' like hard work, I was just asking in general if it would be about 20 years that a N64 emulator could play all of the N64 games. Sorry if my wording was not clear on that, It's my mistake on that part.
Image

Post Reply